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Feeling The Weight: An Interview With Jonathan Russell of The Head And The Heart

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My great uncle used to fall asleep with his eyes open. If you didn’t already know Albert, you might’ve thought he was dead — shot or poisoned like some pale stiff in an old black and white movie. On your hands and knees looking around for shell casings or a bottle of arsenic until you heard him snore. I never met Albert because he’d fallen asleep for good, long before I was born, but there were stories and photos. I generally spend a lot of time alone, mostly chain-smoking cigarettes and overanalyzing the past. Sometimes I sit still for so long, I wonder if I look dead or asleep, just like Albert. Then, I wonder if I am actually one of the two and haven’t realized it yet. 

If you close your eyes and recall the last two years, maybe you can relate. Maybe not. 

Some people close their eyes during car accidents because they want to hide from the pain, forfeit sight to fear. I might not have closed my eyes during the pandemic, but I was still asleep at the wheel driving through it. Maybe even before. None of this did me any good, just protected me from reality. A lot of defense mechanisms get us nowhere. Life can do that. 

Jonathan Russell of The Head and The Heart seemed to touch on something similar in “Hurts (But It Goes Away)” from the band’s new album Every Shade of Blue. Russell sings, “Coming back together / Different but the same / I know that I’m not the only one / Who feels the weight of it.” That sentiment seems to be all over Every Shade of Blue. Not heavy handed. Not self-righteous hipster wisdom. Not a finger pointed at anyone but the person Jon sees in the mirror and the people looking in the mirror with him. Seems like the entire band is pointing at the same reflection.

We all came back from the pandemic with something missing. Maybe it was years. Maybe it was loved ones. Maybe it was a piece of ourselves. Maybe it was the wool over our eyes.

It’s good to see people getting back together. 

Released on April 29th, Every Shade of Blue is the fifth album by The Head and The Heart and their third release for Warner Bros/Reprise. They played the single “Virginia (Wind In The Night)” live on the Tonight Show in March, and the single “Hurts (But It Goes Away)” May 5th on Jimmy Kimmel. The Head and The Heart begin their US headlining tour in support of their new album this month in St. Petersburg, Florida. They will be making stops at the Hangout Music Fest in Alabama, the Ladder To The Moon festival in New Mexico, and a SOLD OUT September 15th date at Red Rocks Amphitheatre in Morrison, Colorado.

When I got on the phone with Jon last week, I didn’t really know what to ask him. Most of the time these days it feels like I’ve forgotten how to talk to people. Speaking on the phone is awkward now. The ringer stays on silent. We all came back missing something from the pandemic. I pretended Jon and I were sitting on one of the benches in Jefferson Park in Church Hill instead of being separated by 2,630 miles. We both call this city home. I used to go to that park to sit when I had something to think about. We’ve all done a lot of pretending the last bunch of years. It’s good to be in a familiar headspace when you’re going to start a conversation with a stranger about his new record and the weight of all of it.

Ryan Kent: How do you think the head and the heart of the United States has changed since the pandemic? It seems like you were using the single, “Virginia (Wind In The Night),” as kind of a metaphor for that. Or at least that’s what I was thinking when I was listening to it.

Jonathan Russell: Well, it’s funny. I mean, I feel like that definitely, intentionally left that open for interpretation, because not everyone’s from Virginia. So, you know, the moment you get too specific, some people start tuning out, think it’s not really relevant to them. So, personally, it’s about a place for myself in terms of that song — this is almost a two-question part here. But in terms of the “Virginia (Wind In The Night)” song itself — yeah, I guess I see what you’re saying. I agree. There are some layers and some symbolic references to it. But really, I guess, the literal sense of me seeing it and feeling it was me coming and going from Richmond, Virginia over the years — from, basically, 2004 until now. Seeing myself almost as a reflection — like, one place as a reference point as my life changes, in terms of my personality, my personal growth, my actual work. When I left Richmond the first time, I was a busboy. So, to come back [as] a professional musician was quite a mindfuck. But yeah, the song “Virginia,” to me, was my way of tracking time, and time changing, and yourself. 

I find it interesting to use a place almost like a mirror. Where you can have the perception of who you are, and who you’ve turned into. [I’m] 37 now. Instead of writing songs about missing home and leaving home, you start becoming a little more self-reflective. And not to mention, just personal age, on top of what the last few years were like. So, to go back to your initial question: “How do you feel the state of the head and the heart is in the United States?” [laughs] It’s interesting. Actually, last night I was talking to someone. Everyone was going through this sense of isolation, this sense of panic, fear, anxiety. Learning how to cope, learning how to stabilize yourself. Not really being able to rely on anything, necessarily, other than your own ability to cope and move through the world, and decide how you want to do that. In a strange way, it almost recalibrated humanity, you know what I mean? 

That sounds like a pretty heavy statement, and I don’t even know what I mean [laughs]. Like I said, this was a conversation I was having last night, so it’s not like some fully [formed] concept yet. But in a strange way, after feeling relatively disconnected from society, I feel like… maybe I’m just searching for that silver lining of what just happened the last few years — as I tend to do, even in my songwriting. I think there was something that touched everyone and acts as a calibration system for all of us. So, what that means exactly? Who fucking knows? [laughs]

RK: Has it influenced the rest of the record, along with the departure of [founding member] Josiah Johnson?

JR: Well, in terms of the Josiah Johnson thing — I feel that’s like when you’re leaving a town, and you can see more than one street. And then the further you get away, you just see the one that’s behind you. Josiah Johnson is a cross street, and that’s no longer in the rearview mirror. I mean, we’re homies, but his story is his story. And our story is our story. I see very few intersections anymore — other than our friendship, which is beautiful. In terms of how the last couple of years would have shaped the music, I think, in kind of a microcosm way, what we chose to do as a band was to take advantage of the physical isolation and realize what it was allowing us and giving us, for the first time maybe ever, was the ability to have real conversations as a band, as a family, as a polygamous marriage, or however you want to look at it. It was the first time that we hadn’t had to walk into some sort of really intense situation following a conversation. Normally, we’re all together, and the last thing you want to do is have somebody on the verge of a breakdown. [Then] it’s an interview, and then it’s TV, or then it’s a concert, and it’s a meet and greet, or it’s radio, or whatever it is. You always just have to put a band-aid on it. And we did that for 10 years. 

So, we brought in a therapist and a specialist. Somebody to be like a referee for us and create a safe space. And as much as I am really burned out on having to be on camera for a zoom call, that did allow this — little subtle, unintentional things. You can read people’s body language. People listen better. There’s a vast personality difference in this band. People will talk over people, and some people care about that, and some people don’t. But bringing in someone to work with us and work on our communication skills, essentially put the focus on mental health, in that regard. The last few years gave us a framework to do that. But I think it’s the work we’ve done on our personal relationships with one another that had the biggest impact on our music. People are respecting each other and listening to one another and trusting each other. So, to circle back to your initial question on the greater state of the United States or just the world, anything we learned as a band, it’s about communication, and feeling respected, and feeling like there’s a trust in the room. You don’t have to agree with everything everyone thinks or says, just give them the fucking space. Give them the floor. 

RK: You should feel comfortable being able to do that in your place.

JR: If there’s anything I’ve noticed from the six people that I’ve known for 12 years — that’s easier said than done. I mean, it’s an even a larger conversation, going into strangers, having that type of trust with total strangers. There’s a lot of rebuilding to do. There’s a lot of communication. There’s a lot of love that needs to be spread around. Not to get all hippie on it, but what good is doing the opposite? It’s just not working for us. So yeah, I feel like I do enjoy the tendency to zoom out and zoom back in. But I don’t want to pretend to be able to speak on all of these things. I guess I can only really speak to what the six of us went through in [these] last few years. If there’s anything I can take from that, this was a band that was ready to say, “this might be our last one.” If we can come back from that and make one of the most vulnerable and bold records we’ve ever made — other than our first one, because we didn’t even know one another — to me, that gives me hope.

RK: Each album by The Head and The Heart has increased its lean towards pop instrumentation. Even more so with Every Shade of Blue. Was that a conscious thing, or was that just an evolution of the band?

JR: I think maybe both. I started collaborating with different writers, with different producers, in my off time. I think maybe I was just in a place where Living Mirage, the previous record, was, so… I think it had to happen. I was reading an interview that I did three years ago, around that record, and it blows my mind how heavy I was. How heavy my thoughts were. So, it doesn’t surprise me that we made a record that’s kind of a deep purple. Heavy colors [are] attached to that record in my mind. So, once that was out of my system, I was looking for a lime green and a yellow, like a bright orange. I ended up working with Jesse Shatkin, who I met in Los Angeles. [He] does a lot of pop, and we just had fun when we were in together. “Tiebreaker” [from Every Shade of Blue] was one of the first songs I ever did with him, and it was just so light and fun, but also compelling in a way, sonically. I think I use this phrase somewhere else, but honestly, it just hits it on the head. He kind of champions my freak flag a little bit. 

That song “Tiebreaker” is pretty unusual, at least from a band who started out with an acoustic-guitar folk message. To me, that was so much fun. There’s so many types, there’s some angles to everyone’s personality. And if you’re fortunate enough, as we are, to have a fifth record, eventually you’re going to start seeing more and more of these individuals. And a song like “Tiebreaker” — working with a producer like Jesse Shatkin just really added this new layer of trust and confidence into a personality of mine that I wasn’t necessarily always exposing to people, unless it was just for fun. Behind closed doors, just having fun with shit. I think for the longest time I was really drawn to more of a serious tone. At least that’s maybe why I was using songwriting. I needed to get some heavier, serious topics off my shoulders. You know, coming as a pendulum. Reacting to being in quite a heavy state during Living Mirage — it just felt really nice to… not keep it light, there’s still real topics on this record, [but] kind of what you were saying initially, pop can kind of make you feel good.

RK: Looking at each album, over time it’s like looking at a version of yourself, and you have an opinion of each record, which will evolve as you evolve. With that being said, how do you think your opinion of Every Shade of Blue will evolve over time?

JR: Yeah, that’s a great question, and great insight you have there. I guess where we’re at now is kind of its infancy, in terms of being introduced into the world. Other people can now touch it and listen to it and critique it, both in good and bad ways. Which I think is fair, and as it should be done. To me, it feels like a stamp in time of the band’s relationship. Whereas I really feel like, for a while, I was always sort of thinking of records in terms of my relationship with myself. This is the first record where I’m hearing it and viewing it, and the imagery it gives me are memories of this group having breakthrough moments. Yes. It feels like a group. 

RK: Now, it’s everybody’s success. 

JR: Yes! We played a really small but beautiful acoustic set last night here in Los Angeles, at this place called the Winston House. It was just really half the band doing the acoustic set. If you watch in your present, with those around you — this whole ride, this whole life experience, this whole putting a smile on someone’s face and making them feel good or whatever… It’s like, just be present with those around you. Let their beauty and their pain and their excitement and their nervousness, let that go through you too. This is maybe a weird way of getting to something we had already mentioned, but it being about the group just feels like you don’t have to be the sole provider, or the only person in charge who is making sure shit works. I feel like we are unraveling something that you and I have already said, so maybe I’ll just leave it at that. 

RK: It’s like a new comfort level that you have. I would think being able to do that is almost like stretching completely, to your full potential. In your head, when you were making Every Shade of Blue, did you feel like you were making a great record? Like you hear artists say, “I knew that was a hit when I wrote it.” And they’re not being arrogant, they just had that feeling. Did you have that feeling at all when you were writing and recording this?

JR: Yeah, well, you know… what’s funny is, I feel like in the inception stage of certain songs, I definitely feel that way, from time to time. I think because of the void in which this record was being made. By that, I mean the last few years. It was almost scary to feel that way and then have, like, a vast silence come back to you. I’ve never questioned my own barometer so heavily, and I think maybe through that process, I let go of trying to decide whether something is really good or not.

RK: Yeah, I understand. You quit questioning and, like I said, you kind of stretched, and were just like, “this is good.” The Head and The Heart are playing in Richmond at the Altria on September 17th, which is two days before my 40th birthday. You said you’re 37 years old, and you’ve written five records. Toured all over the place. You’ve done a lot of stuff in 37 years. Weird question here: not like any of these have been fucking normal or anything, but what advice would you give to a 40-year-old? 

JR: [laughing] Oh god. I don’t know. Is the younger supposed to be giving advice to the elder? I’m not sure. 

RK: I mean, we can all take advice [laughing].

JR: I don’t mean to call you an elder [laughing].

RK: We can all take advice from everybody, especially on life experience. I dunno, man. I’m gonna be 40. So…

JR: Right. Start exercising again. [laughing]

RK: Great answer! 

JR: [laughing] In all honesty, man, I’ve realized the difference [from] 34 coming off the road, and 37 going back out feels like a different body. And a different mind. I think I took for granted somewhat good genetics, and I’ve always been somewhat athletic. I grew up skateboarding. But it’s time to get fucking real. Especially if I want to go out and feel young, and feel healthy, and feel excited. And able to bend down, smash the fucking pedal and jump back up and seeing like… bro, it’s time to get back out there, man [laughing]. I’m trying to stick to this. I started working with someone to help guide me getting back into it. And it’s honestly, it’s been, like, a week and a half, and it’s very noticeable. So, my advice: take physical health a lot more seriously than you did when you’re 30 or 35 or whatever, you know? Yeah, that’s where I’m at.

RK: I’ve been trying to drink more water. I used to do push-ups. I’m like, “Yeah, I’m gonna do them tomorrow.” And tomorrow comes and I just don’t do anything, so thanks for the reminder. [laughing]

JR: Dude, I’ve even started doing the lady push-ups. I don’t give a shit. I just started doing them. I’m sure at some point, I’ll be able to get back to doing real push-ups, but like, whatever it takes to not feel like you can’t do it. Just eliminate that shit.

RK: It’s only gonna get better if you do it, I guess.  

JR: Yeah. I just normally have a lot of anxiety around doing stuff like this, for the record. I just kind of stew. But there’s been something like an unlock or a release from just doing, like, 30 to 45 minutes of stretching, cardio, whatever it is. Just low impact stuff, because my knees are kind of jacked now from running. But yeah, it just calms you down.

RK: [laughing] I’ll take that advice.

JR: And hopefully, we’ll see you at the Altria Theater, man.  A birthday gift. I mean, I would love to do that for you.

RK: Jesus. That would be great. Thank you very much for that.

JR: Of course, I really enjoyed this interview. It’s like… sneaky, left of center questions. They don’t come out sounding wild or pretentious, but you’ve got a sneaky ability to stay off the obvious.

RK: Man, I didn’t want to ask you the same shit. I wanted it to be like we’re sitting next to each other somewhere, and we got on some weird topics. So, thanks for that, Jon. Mind if I ask you one more? 

JR: Yeah, for sure. 

RK: You were mentioning different shades [before]. I remember reading this interview about Liz Phair, when she was writing Exile In Guyville. Somebody said [Liz Phair] wanted one of these songs to sound [like the color] brown. I never forgot that, because I’d never thought of a sound as a color before. So, to bring it back to Richmond, what’s the color you think of when you think of Richmond?

JR: One color… [pauses] That’s tough. I mean, if we’re talking about the James River — brown [laughing]. I think I have to come at it from a different angle for a minute. What I noticed when I was living in San Francisco for six years and kept my apartment in Church Hill the whole time — and that’s what I’m back into now. Whenever I’ve come back to my apartment, my songs seem to be piano based and more mid-tempo, and I don’t know if that’s just because I needed to contrast from the way I was writing in SF, which was more upbeat and sporadic. To me, Richmond is somewhat grounding, and I’m calmer. I love the fact that I can hear a fucking leaf being blown down the street. The dryness. That kind of like [makes crunching sounds]. That’s what I love about being in Richmond, especially in the east side of it. As often as I used color to describe sound, that place to me is more like a tempo thing. And the tempo, to me, feels calm and mid-tempo, which I love.

The Head And The Heart comes to Richmond’s Altria Theater on Saturday, September 17, with special guests Shakey Graves. Tickets are on sale now at the Altria’s website. The Head And The Heart’s new album, Every Shade Of Blue, is available on vinyl and CD from the band’s website, and can be found on all streaming platforms.

Photos via The Head And The Heart/Facebook

Fraying The Edges

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RVA Mag presents the world premiere of “Hot Dice,” the new single from Richmond indie-psych trio Ten Pound Snail. Marilyn Drew Necci spoke to Ten Pound Snail frontperson Holden Wilson to get the lowdown on the new song and the story behind one of Richmond’s most intriguing new bands.

We all lost a lot during the 18-month shutdown that accompanied the pandemic, but if there’s one silver lining to all that, it’s to be found in the numerous bands that have sprung fully formed onto the Richmond scene in the months since things opened back up. Of all those new bands, one of the ones that captured my attention most quickly and thoroughly is Ten Pound Snail. This indie trio caught my attention with an intriguing blend of that quiet, moody sound known as slowcore (exemplified in the genre’s heyday by groups like Red House Painters, American Music Club, and Galaxie 500) and a more psychedelic, shoegaze-influenced sound that seems to reflect the influence of groups like Mazzy Star or Mojave 3.

Their debut release, an EP called Sunspots, entered the world in December 2020, at the height of the pandemic panic, but it was the followup, Parlor Tricks, which first showed up on my radar upon its release at the beginning of summer 2021. Heavy with atmosphere, it opened up a space inside your head and filled it with resonant emotion. It’s the sort of thing that might confuse listeners into thinking this band would be a quiet, listless live act. However, there’s a whole other side to the Ten Pound Snail side, one that brings in more energetic tempos and crunchy guitars than you’d ever expect from previous work.

That live sound first showed up on “Overgrowth,” a digital single Ten Pound Snail released at the tail end of 2021. It constitutes the first hint of the group’s upcoming full-length, which they’ve continued to hone and put finishing touches on since the release of “Overgrowth.” Now they’re giving us another single from that album, “Hot Dice,” which builds from a rather subdued opening section into an out-and-out rocker that’s more driving than anything else Ten Pound Snail have put to tape. RVA Magazine is pleased to bring this killer tune into the world, and you can stream it below. After you do so, keep scrolling to read our interview with Ten Pound Snail singer/guitarist Holden Wilson, in which we attempt to figure out where this band came from, what their goals are, and when the world will be graced with their new album.

Marilyn Drew Necci: Thanks for agreeing to the interview. I’ve enjoyed your music so far, but the fact is, I don’t know much about Ten Pound Snail beyond what I’ve heard. So, first things first: who is in the band?

Holden Wilson: The band consists of Josh Akerley on drums and percussion, Yusuf Goulmamine on bass guitar, and myself, Holden Wilson, on guitar and vocals, plus instruments that we use in the studio like piano and synths.

Drew: How did you get together?

Holden: We’ve played music together since becoming friends in high school, but never overlapped in any official projects together until this project began a couple years ago. I had come up with some full-band arrangements that I wanted to try out to see what came of it, but we quickly realized that we could hit the ground running with a full-force project after all the years of building that chemistry.

Drew: I’m not the only one who has described the sound of the early Ten Pound Snail recordings I’ve heard as “slowcore.” Do you guys identify with this genre? If so, why? If not, what genre do you feel like you’re trying for — if any in particular?

Holden: Much of our released material, particularly from Parlor Tricks, definitely shares some common ground with Slowcore. I’m a big fan of Unwound, Duster, Horse Jumper of Love, and other artists in that zone, mostly because of their approach to integrating jazzy harmony, psychedelic timbres, and stuff of that sort where it doesn’t traditionally belong. However, Parlor Tricks was just kind of a group of mellow songs that we chose to fast-track because it felt more reflective of our lives during the start of the “COVID era.” Our live set nowadays consists almost entirely of unreleased material, which has a lot more energy and emphasis on intricate rhythmic motifs [than it should in order] to fall completely [with]in the boundaries of a genre like that. But we have plans to revisit some more contemplative styles in the future, after we release the rock and roll stuff.

Drew: How did you land upon your sound? Did you come together with a specific goal of sounding like you do now, or was it something that came about organically once you all got together?

Holden: It has mostly just developed naturally, but I did have a few sort of free-form founding principles that I wanted to explore.

I think the easiest summary of the idea would be “doing whatever feels right,” but a bit more actively and intentionally than that would suggest. Our aim is to combine and blend the different musical influences that captivate us into something cohesive, on a few levels — within an album and across different releases for sure, but most importantly within individual songs. For example, we have a lot of upcoming work that has a noisy solo section and big, blissed-out psychedelic chords in the same minute. I’ll often listen to artists [like] Bill Evans and Oh Sees back to back, and I really enjoy how dizzy and rich that experience is. So I like to channel that idea of opposing forces into my own writing, which creates very interesting and automatic contrast and dynamics.

I also just get bored if a song stays in one place for too long, so a lot of the songs end up having plenty of room for these different sounds and styles; [they] “evolve,” more like a phasic composition than a classic verse-chorus-verse-chorus song structure. I think it’s a good sign if you struggle to describe your sound with existing genres or common adjectives, and that challenge seems to be a reliable result of our process of taking a wide variety of inputs, melting them down, and making some strange hybrid sculptures, so to speak. The tricky part is retaining a catchy sound and natural feeling, but that just comes with practice.

Drew: The new song that we’re premiering, “Hot Dice” — this is part of a larger project, right? What can you tell us about that project? How is it an advance on what you’ve done before? What are your goals for it? When do you expect it to be out?

Holden: “Hot Dice” is the second single for our upcoming album, following our first single, “Overgrowth.” The album will pretty much just be all the songs from our current live set plus an ambient interlude, about 14 songs in total. There’s a lot of energy and force in this batch of songs, but it’s packaged a little differently in each one. My main goal is for it to feel layered and fully developed without sounding maximalist or losing focus, so it’ll likely have some more dimension and a wider scope than our previous work.

We’re also recording and mixing it ourselves, which is a double-edged sword. You get a lot more creative control over all the small details, and have time to add and subtract and think on it a bit more. But the other side of that is that a lot more time, effort, and education goes into making it happen, and you have to have the grit to trust that it’ll work out when you inevitably get lost in the process. The timetable is still very much in the air, but we’ll have another single or two within the next few months. Our goal has been to have the full release out by the end of the year so we have time to be really thorough with it, but I’d love to accelerate the process if we manage our time well.

Drew: Some might tell you that the pandemic has gone away, but it seems to me that in very real ways we’ll be dealing with it for the rest of our lives. How has the pandemic affected Ten Pound Snail in the present? Do you feel the same way about, say, touring, or playing live, as you would have if the pandemic had never happened?

Holden: As I mentioned earlier, it definitely affected our musical direction at the beginning, but in a way that felt natural and fulfilling. Outside of that, our first performance was December 2019, a little over two years ago, so it took a big chunk out of our potential growth at the time, not being able to play shows for so long. We’ve only been regularly performing for a little under a year now, even though it feels like so much longer, but I couldn’t be more grateful for the response and momentum since getting back to it. I think it was initially a little disappointing to have to step back from shows for a year, but in hindsight I’m extremely grateful for how we approached it. Putting out Parlor Tricks, learning new songs, and writing a mountain of material for the future (much of which we still have yet to explore) were all crucial pieces in our growth, and have permitted us to keep pushing forward in a way that may not have occurred without that forced free time and preparation.

Drew: In an email, you told me that Ten Pound Snail had queer members. Would you care to elaborate on this/be more specific? If not, that’s fine, but regardless, how do you think queerness has affected your creative work as a band?

Holden: I identify as non-binary. I think that aligns with my current feelings around gender fairly well, but I still have a lot of questions that I haven’t been able to answer yet, so I’m not quite sure what the future holds. All I can really tell you is that it won’t get any less queer from here [laughs]. The most pronounced influence that it has on the music is through my writing process, but those are fairly subtle explorations so far and probably won’t appear on recordings until later. On the performance side, wearing big formal dresses for an engaged live audience has also felt personally affirming. There’s a lot of people who’ve voiced their appreciation for how I display that element of myself in a scene where rock and roll often looks quite different, so I really value that too.

Drew: Are there specific political or social ideas you’re attempting to get across in your lyrics? If so, please elaborate. If not, what do you write lyrics about?

Holden: There’s a few lyrical passages that deal with the aggravation of progressive ideals not being implemented well or unanimously supported, but it’s not a very common theme within the songs themselves. The songs mostly pertain to personal challenges and mental health, or sometimes there’s a little story thrown in there. The most consistent element of my lyrics is abstract imagery and fraying the edges of what actually makes sense, in an attempt to invert common ideas and paint a picture of a different, less predictable world. I like to write things that have a certain degree of ambiguity or crypticness to them, which in turn allows for more open interpretation — which I also enjoy.

As far as what the lyrics mean to me, a common theme is my childhood mental illness and how that’s evolved over time, but more often I write about knowing where I want to be nowadays, but not being able to think it into existence, which is my default reaction to everything. Actually getting there, for me, only ever comes from a sort of mindfulness that I’ve identified in great detail, but have struggled to implement. I think that feeling of progress eluding you again and again is a lifelong challenge for most people, so it’s a good intersection of relatability, while still being able to paint the world in the unique way that I view it personally. A lot of the motivation to create centers around music being the medium by which I can really express the more complex, compounded emotions of real life, beyond one-dimensional things like “happy” or “sad.” I like to twist things until they feel ambitious, melancholy, hopeful, unsure, mysterious… things of that nature where you’re kind of being pulled in different directions. I find those feelings better pertain to the natural oscillations of health and confidence, and end up representing human feelings in day-to-day life more accurately, which feels more fulfilling to me both as an artist and a listener.

Drew: Let me know about any future plans you have as a band. Upcoming shows? Planned tours? Any releases coming up that aren’t already included in the question above?

Holden: We had our first tour this past spring, and are hoping to do another round this winter. The past few months have been pretty intense — our summer plans are a bit more sparse for the purpose of continuing to record, mix, and learn new songs, but I believe we have some local shows planned for June 17 and July 8, and we’ll definitely play more often in the fall. Historically we’ve thrown house shows under the house name Spiral Mansion every month or two, so we might throw one of those in there at some point. We’re also hoping to start performing new songs and recording another album as soon as we finish this one.

You can buy Ten Pound Snail’s music from their Bandcamp page, and follow them on Instagram @Tenpoundsnail.

Deadsun Rising

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DEADSUN is a brand new Richmond quartet with an intriguing pedigree, featuring members of People’s Blues of Richmond, The Shack Band, and Tarrant laying down some killer rock n’ roll riffs. RVA Mag has the exclusive premiere of their first two songs — check ’em out right now, and get ready to rock.

For over a decade, People’s Blues Of Richmond was a mainstay here in the RVA, especially if you dug the sort of chaotic rock n’ roll goodtimes this trio dished out. I’m sure I’m not the only one in this town who has missed them since they’ve been gone. And I know it might seem like PBR played their last shows not too long ago; after all, the pandemic was a major time distortion for everyone. But the fact is, it’s been over two and a half years since we heard from those boyos; at this point, anything new from that corner of the Richmond scene is not only welcome but highly anticipated.

Luckily for us all, the wait is over. DEADSUN is a new quartet gracing the Richmond scene, featuring two former PBR members — bassist Matthew Volkes and drummer/backing vocalist Nekoro Williams — along with guitarist Dylan Barrows, previously of Tarrant, and The Shack Band’s Hunter Pease, who takes on guitar-slinging frontman duties. DEADSUN played their first show at The Camel a couple weeks ago, and right now, we’ve got an exclusive taste of the first two songs they’ve released. These tracks were laid down recently at Elephant Ear Studios, with engineering and mixing by Jeremy Simmons, and mastering duties handled by Dan Millice. So, without further ado, let’s get into it.

“Hard Living” has the same grimy, gritty rock n’ roll feel that PBR brought into the world, but Pease and Barrows inject a slightly more progressive theme into this song about struggling to get by in the urban environment. In fact, with Pease’s smooth tenor laid overtop of the dueling lead guitars from both Pease and Barrows, there’s a subtle element coming through that makes me think of grunge — though more on the Jane’s Addiction/Soundgarden end of things than Pearl Jam or Alice In Chains.

“Don’t Do It Again” is a more restrained track, but the intensity that bubbles under even the quieter portions of the song’s verses pays off in a big way once the chorus hits and the solo from Dylan Barrows kicks in. Williams’s drumming is as mindblowing as ever, though he mostly eschews flashy fills in order to ensure that his beats serve the song, first and foremost. The result is every bit as pleasing as “Hard Living,” even if it doesn’t give you quite the same musical smack across the face.

DEADSUN are just beginning to make their name around the Richmond scene, but if you keep your eyes open, you’re sure to see plenty of them in the coming months, starting with their set as part of Daydream Fest, a dozen-band festival taking place on Memorial Day, Monday May 30, at Main Line Brewery. But that’s another story (one you should keep an eye on RVA Mag for in the coming days). For now, let these new tracks from DEADSUN glide you into this lovely May weekend.

Photo by Alex Gilliam, @truxton.made

Of Empathy And Exhaustion

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On the debut album from Ages, Must Be Nice, the Richmond post-hardcore quartet leads with accessible melodic song structure. But those melodies can’t hide the layer of sarcasm, frustration, and, ultimately, weariness that underpins the entire album.

If you’ve been paying attention to the indie rock underground here in Richmond anytime in the past 15 years or so, you’re sure to have encountered Adrienne Shurte’s music. She’s helmed several bands that achieved different levels of buzz here in the River City, including Hail Hydra, Fire Bison, and Magnus Lush. Her latest quartet, Ages, appears to take its name from her nickname, Age, and the first initial of her last name, and that might make it easy for those who’ve seen Shurte’s backing bands come and go over the years to see her latest incarnation as more of a glorified solo project.

However, on Must Be Nice, the debut release from Ages, it’s very difficult to make that case. Ages, the band, is rounded out by guitarist Christian Monroe, who previously played drums in Shurte’s last band, Magnus Lush; bassist Tristan Brennis, best known around Richmond as the sax player for jazz-metal fusion quartet Dumb Waiter; and drummer Tim Falen, who has kept the beat for a ton of different Richmond bands, from psychedelic space travelers The Diamond Center to speedy hardcore combo Ultra Flake.

So yeah, far from merely showcasing Adrienne Shurte and an anonymous backing band, Must Be Nice features a bit of an all-star cast. Those talents make their presence known on these tunes, too. The contrasting guitar lines in “Australia” show how well Monroe and Shurte work together, while Falen’s intricate, textured drum parts are a core building block of the entire release. Brennis, meanwhile, makes clear that just because bass isn’t his usual instrument doesn’t mean he doesn’t know his way around the four-string beast.

But of course, I’m burying the lede here, because the main reason to show up for this Ages album, just as it has always been for any of Shurte’s previous projects, continues to be the strong songwriting and powerful vocal performance she offers throughout this album. While some musicians who move from band to band over the course of their career reveal different sides of their musical personality with each new project, Shurte covers the same territory here that she’s occupied in previous projects. Post-hardcore songwriting that mingles up-front melodies with intense structural underpinnings, dynamic songwriting that often builds toward powerful crescendos, and always the piercing, emotionally-centered lyrics that are Shurte’s stock in trade, especially paired with her riveting vocal performance.

Must Be Nice might be the most understated release in the Adrienne Shurte oeuvre thus far; it generally forsakes heavy musical apexes for the sort of steadily building slow burn that can’t help keep listeners on the edge of their seat, even as Shurte sings lengthy passages in her most delicate, almost whispery vocal timbre. It’s at moments like these that the rhythm section truly shines on this album. A great example is the penultimate track, “Sidewalk Rooftop;” even as Shurte keeps a tight lid on her voice, even as she and Monroe’s alternating arpeggiated guitar lines avoid any form of overdriven crunch, Brennis and Falen steadily escalate the intensity of their rhythmic backing, achieving crescendos that feel powerful even as the guitar and vocal lines layered over them betray no hint that they’re actually happening.

This, if anything, is the theme of this album. A sarcastic sneer oozes from the title, one that’s impossible to take at face value. Lyrically, these songs focus on interpersonal struggles, and the difficulties one faces when balancing the needs of others with one’s own needs. Nobody wants to feel like an asshole, but it’s difficult to continually privilege the feelings of others when they don’t ever seem to take yours into account. That’s the feeling captured lyrically throughout this release.

Closer “No Money” is particularly noteworthy in terms of the emotional content here. With Shurte’s vocal and acoustic guitar joined only by quiet backing from a string quartet, the edge of bitterness present throughout the previous six songs is allowed to fall away, replaced by a lovelorn weariness that’s all too familiar for any listener who has ever had their own struggles with the push and pull of love. “I just want to be with you when the day is done,” Shurte sings at the end of the song — and, for that matter, the album — and while it may not be a happy emotion to leave you with, it is a familiar one. And in that familiarity, a listener can hopefully find some comfort.

Must Be Nice is out now from Ossein Records. It’s available on cassette or digital download from this link.

Photos via Ages/Facebook

The Muddy Divas of Richmond Glitter-Punk

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Shawnis And The Shimmers were all set to take over the Richmond scene when the pandemic hit in 2020. After a slight delay, they’ve returned with a brand new album and a mission to make the entire city fall in love with their glammed-out punk rock n’ roll.

From a hole in the wall on the Northside emerges a glittery garage-punk five-piece that could become Richmond’s next big hit. Shawnis and the Shimmers has spent the last two years cloistered away, working on making music that captures the quintessential classic punk sound and mixing it with the spirit of every modern gutter punk’s dreams. The result of this has been the release of their first album, Wasteland. 

“I feel like we haven’t been stuck waiting through the pandemic because we’ve been working so hard,” said Jerry, the band’s lead guitarist. “Recording sounded too clean, but we wanted our music muddy and fucked up, so it took us months to figure that out.”

“Essentially, how do we make it sound like shit,” said Jamie, the band’s drummer. “Shit should not be digital.”

According to Jerry, Chris, the band’s guitarist, “does most of the work that takes a lot of patience. I don’t have the patience for it. So I do wait, I sit there and wait for him to do it. It’s got to get fuck-i-fied,” said Jerry.

From the creation of the music itself, it’s conception is inherently scattered and “fuck-i-fied.” When Shawnis, the band’s lead singer, comes to the rest of the band with lyrics, or an idea for a new song, often it comes in the form of hints, scattered adjectives, and jumbled emotion. It’s up to the band to move in alongside Shawnis and create the final product that’s been residing in their head with no clear way out. 

“Yeah, sometimes we won’t understand it,” said Chris. “Shawnis will have the lyrics and everything already, just in a way we don’t entirely understand.” 

“We’ll practice it, play it, then rearrange it. Add some spice. I don’t want to toot my own horn, but I bring a lot to the table,” said Jamie.

“You bring the arrangement, Shawnis brings the derangement,” said Jerry. “That’s the fun part, because he’ll just sing it, and it’ll be like three parts that don’t sound like each other. Sometimes he’ll give me an adjective that the song needs to be more like, and I don’t know what the hell it means.” 

“It’s like playing musical charades,” said Lila, the band’s bassist.

“For example, ‘It’s a smokey bar, you see your ex and now it’s time to say ‘you motherfucker,’’” said Shawnis.

“We’re the first method-acting band,” said Jamie.

The best part of these musicians all coming together is that, even though the musical creations can appear haphazard, they’ve all been playing for years and have the know-how to put out something amazing from odds and ends. 

Before Shawnis and the Shimmers, Shawnis had become a Richmond icon of sorts playing with The You Go Girls and Nightcreature. Meanwhile, Lila was in Chemtrails and Jamie was in Dadmobile. All of the band’s members were well-vetted veterans of the Richmond music scene and knew this band had a real chance to become something greater. 

The five faces of Shawnis And The Shimmers. Collage by Lila, courtesy Shawnis And The Shimmers.

“We’re a supergroup,” said Shawnis. “I wanted to find some people that were not all in 18 other bands. We found out we listen to all the same kind of music, and we were essentially trying to do the same thing. We were about a month away from playing our first gigs together when the pandemic started.” 

Luckily, those two years away from the stage only made them stronger together and ultimately put them in the position to release ample new music. They’ll start hitting Richmond’s stages this Monday at Fuzzy Cactus, and are looking to play many more shows from there, all around. It’ll be an event long awaited by both Richmonders and the band. 

“The first weekend we had set was the week that everything shut down,” said Lila. “I had a show with another band the Sunday before, and this was supposed to be the week after that.”

“That was the last show I went to, too,” said Shawnis. “Me and my roommate were like, ‘Should we even be here?’ It was a few months before we could really work on anything after that, but we all met back up after vaccinations, and we’ve gotten to a good place.”

“We all needed it really bad. We all had energy we needed to let out,” said Jerry.

“We’re edging, Richmond,” said Jamie.

“I mean, we did write a song about edging,” said Jerry.

“We may or may not have,” replied Shawnis.

Whether they did or not, you’ll have to listen and find out. 

Even as a relatively new band, the dedication the fans of this band have is unending; before anyone else even knew Wasteland was out, someone had found the unadvertised version on the band’s bandcamp and reviewed it. The music is sure to make you a convert, too, if you weren’t already one.

“We put our album on bandcamp just so we could hear it and advertise it, and someone reviewed it before we even officially put it out: ‘gritty glam punk rock and roll.’” said Shawnis. “It was really weird.”

“Has to have been someone local. Someone refreshing the Richmond bands hashtags,” said Lila.  

“Someone did that to my band in the 90s. They said, ‘these dudes are just mumbling into the mic.’ And we were like, ‘yeah, because the lyrics aren’t written yet,” said Jerry.

As with their other bands and projects, you can expect to find Shawnis and the Shimmers glamming it up as their various alter-egos and diva-licious selves onstage. Having made reference to The Munsters in their previous Halloween gathering, and dreaming of donning Alice Cooper-style Saran Wrap fits, the band promises to excite. 

“We’re a sex-positive band, so we always wrap it up,” said Jamie. “Play a show in a body condom.”

Aside from fantastic music, you’ll never know what you’re going to get at a Shawnis and the Shimmers show. After having been cooped up for years, they may have gone just a bit insane, and the anticipation to see that insanity play out will be well worth the wait. 

From here on out we, luckily, won’t have to wait too long for even more music from the band, as they already have plans for a second album and more. 

“We’re super stoked that the album is out in the world. We’re super proud of it,” said Shawnis. “But also, we’ve got like a whole other album that we’re ready to start working on. We had plenty of COVID setbacks.” 

“I hope that when all of this is truly over, like 80 albums will drop. just because everybody’s been working,” said Jerry.

Catch Shawnis and the Shimmers at Fuzzy Cactus on March 21. This will be a rarity for Fuzzy Cactus, which usually doesn’t host shows on Monday. The show starts at 9 pm and also features Californians The Wind-Ups and local band Bummers Eve. Admission is $8 at the door (no advance tickets available).

To find the freshman album from Shawnis And The Shimmers, Wasteland, head over to their bandcamp page. Then take the night off on Monday to come discover your new favorite band: Shawnis and the Shimmers.

Top Photo by Chris Suspect, courtesy Shawnis And The Shimmers

Living With Change: An Interview With Dead Billionaires Founder Warren Campbell

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Bands form regularly as a result of thriving music communities. But the opposite? Community growing from a single band? It’s rare, but it’s what Warren Campbell has been able to achieve with his continuously evolving rock group, Dead Billionaires. 

The Richmond-based singer and guitarist has been writing songs and wrangling various lineups since 2016.“We have a lot of magic with the trio we have right now,” Campbell said on a recent call in which he praised his current bandmates — bassist Nick Trbovich and drummer Hunter Rhodes — described a recording project that’s on the horizon, and looked back on the handful of years he’s spent fronting a group that’s been in a state of regular reinvention.

The band’s name is among the changes he’s overseen. His project was initially called Little River Creek Police, but the murder of George Floyd and ensuing protests motivated him to make a change. “It’s crass for me to pretend that it’s just a name,” he says, “when there are huge portions of this country [who] hear the word ‘police’ and it’s automatically a negative reaction. And I don’t think that’s unfounded in any way.” 

You won’t find the recorded material he released as Little River Creek Police on streaming services; it was taken down in conjunction with the name change. But you will find a red-hot self-titled Dead Billionaires EP from 2021 — a quick, three-song listen that manages to stick with you as a result of tight songwriting and memorable choruses with the kind of backing vocals that make you feel like you’re singing along just by listening. 

Those looking to sing along in person will have to wait awhile — the next local gig they’ve announced is at Dominion Riverrock on Saturday, May 21. In the meantime, Campbell is setting out on an unofficial South by Southwest tour, swinging through North Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee, and Arkansas en route to Texas. The change in location will come with a similarly transitory lineup; the out-of-town shows will be performed by an ad hoc duo lineup made up of Campbell and Asheville-based multi-instrumentalist Troy Crossley.

What inspired the lineup change for the upcoming tour? 

I’d been planning on doing South by [Southwest] for a while, and wanted to approach it as either an official artist or an unofficial artist. I started booking the rest of the tour dates and pretty soon found out that Nick wouldn’t be able to go, due to some personal things going on with him. So I called up Troy and asked him, “Would you mind filling in on bass?” And he was like, “Yeah, absolutely.” I was like, “This is the farthest we’ve gone out, not a lot of guarantees along the way, I’m booking the whole tour on my own, not using any agency, [and] we didn’t get officially accepted to South by Southwest.” He was like, “Still in.” Then I found out a couple weeks later that Hunter wouldn’t be able to do it for some financial reasons, and I was like, “Acutally, Troy, would you mind learning these songs on drums instead of on bass?” And he was like, “Yup, absolutely.”

I’ve known him since I was 14 years old. We used to play in a band in high school, so we’ve got a real good connection. He came up to rehearse with me a couple weeks ago. He’s fresh off of doing Rocky Horror Music Show [in Asheville]. He played the role of Dr. Frank N. Furter and also played drums… I think they’re going to do it some other places this fall, but that’s his most recent claim to fame. He’s done a million other things – a lot of stuff in the Asheville scene. A bunch of different bands.  

Troy Crossley and Warren Campbell are Dead Billionaires… for now. (Photo courtesy Dead Billionaires)

What was going on in your life around the time you started Little River Creek Police?

I had been at Stetson University in Florida, and I had just graduated college and moved back home to Berryville, Virginia. I was playing with my buddy Brian Marquis there. I was trying to find my footing personally but also financially. Both of us were living with our parents, and we saw this big opportunity. We were honestly really inspired by the People’s Blues of Richmond at the time, because they were touring so much and would come up to the area and we’d see them in Winchester. We’d see them wherever. So we thought, “Hey, there’s no reason we can’t do this,” so the two of us moved down to Richmond together. 

That was the original synthesis of the band: two guitar players, both vocalists, both songwriters. Eventually Brian left the group. It was briefly a four-piece when he was still in the band, then it became a three-piece after that, and then we were a three-piece for a long time with a whole bunch of different lineups. It’s just ever-evolving… It’s been a really fun dynamic to be able to play these songs with so many different people. It’s never exactly the same between all of these lineups. Me being the sole constant member, I’m never telling anyone else, “Can you play it more like the last person that played this?” It’s always a little bit different. 

There are so many lessons to be learned as a result of lineup changes, and not all of them are purely musical. What lessons have you picked up over these last few years?

I think the biggest thing that I’ve picked up is that you can’t ever be mad at anybody for quitting the band. It’s a ridiculous ask, honestly, for most reasonable people. “Hey, what we’re going to do is we’re spend a lot of time making this stuff, and it’s going to be kind of expensive to make, and then we’re going to start playing a whole lot, and there’s not really any guarantee we’re going to make a lot of money doing that. But hey, would you want to stick with this forever?” is kind of a crazy notion… 

Nick Trbovich has played bass in the band three separate times. And he’s such a valuable member of the band. He’s been on a ton of these recordings we’ve done with the old name, and he popped on at the last second to be on the recording for the new EP. We’ve played a ton of shows together, and it’s always been really delightful. And I have a drummer who moved away, Riley Kerns, who had a baby. He’s in the Winchester area now, and I know that if I ever am touring north and need a drummer – it’s more or less developed into a roster I can pull from if need be, and I trust everybody on that list.

It’s a type of community-building.

That’s more or less the way I would like to approach music in all sorts of ways. It’s all about building good relationships with the other bands you play with, and the venues that you play, and your audience. There are ways to achieve flash-in-the-pan success that are going to be more fleeting than that. If you can have a slow build while taking some calculated risks, that’s the way it makes sense to me. 

Troy Crossley. Photo courtesy Dead Billionaires.

Where did you record last year’s EP?

We recorded that at my house. My roommate, Ian Atchison, was the engineer, and it was a very pandemic-style recording experience. We gathered gear from Ian’s gear. Ian’s been working with Rich Stine – we borrowed a couple of microphones from him. We did it over the course of a couple of months, all at home. 

There were a couple of recording days when we were getting scratch tracks in. We had everybody over, and Ian was being the engineer role, and I knew that my vocal and guitar parts were coming later in the process, so I was like, “Okay, let me be the hospitality guy.” I live in Carver, pretty close to the Dunkin’ Donuts. I was like, “Breakfast. What do we all need? What do we all want? I’m going to go get it.” Like, “How much can we simulate being a real studio while we’re doing this over those couple days we had everyone in?”

Ian and I [recorded] a lot of stuff later on in our own time. Those songs are kind of a mishmash. The first track, “Engines” – the reason why we wanted to lead with that one is it’s one of the handful of pandemic anxiety songs that I had written during the time, and it was a synthesis of thinking about the ideas of how we can succeed together, and how failure is all relative, and uncertainty is guaranteed. 

It does feel like the songs have a participatory, anthemic feel. Was that something you were aiming for?

It was a very communal process in everything that went down. We had our good friend Colleen Christman do backup vocals. Her band’s called Margox. My other roommate, Neal Friedman, in Super Doppler, he did some of the backup vocals that you hear on “Plans.” We got Chip Hale to mix it, and that was one of those things were it was like, “I want my buddies on this thing. I want to make sure we’ve got the team…” 

I remember when I was sending it to him to be mixed, I gave him [music by] this really good band from Toronto called Zeus. They just have that old school warmth to it, and I wish I could tell you more about what gear Chip ran it through when he mixed it, but I’m not sure. Me and Nick and Hunter are all huge Dr. Dog fans, and it was just like, “How do you make it feel like a song that everyone might already know? Something that sounds like it’s always existed?”

How did you get to know Chip?

Chip and I have known each other for a while. We met at Cary St. open mic, and I became close with him and Tyler [Meacham] in, maybe, winter 2019. Those are my buddies. We just kind of got up at the same time. We were figuring out what we wanted to do as songwriters and musicians by going to open mic every week at Cary St. Cafe. It’s a cool environment.

I’m hosting the open mic at the Camel these days, the last Wednesday of every month… It’s been going great. We had a surprise appearance: [Jonathan] Russell of The Head and the Heart came through. I was like, “Oh shit!” It was mid-January and we got through the list pretty quickly, and Jon played six or seven songs because nobody else had signed up for the rest of the night. It was good. Last month we had 17 signups. Next one is March 30. After the tour, that’ll be the first thing back in Richmond. 

Warren Campbell. Photo courtesy Dead Billionaires.

Do you enjoy the flexibility of the trio format?

It is nice. I try and think about it this way: I’m going to keep track of all the vocal parts and all the guitar parts, but what the rhythm section is doing is up to them. Nick and Hunter have been really great at that. Nick is a powerhouse on bass, and I always joke that we don’t need a lead guitar player because Nick’s got it covered. And Hunter is the most punk, laid back drummer I’ve ever heard. He’s got a Ringo Starr vibe but it’s still really aggressive and really precise… 

The nimbleness is important. I sold my car in 2019 and I bought a Toyota Sienna, and the three-piece on tour works great. We don’t have enough equipment to need a trailer, somebody can lay down in the back seat while we’re driving and there’s still another person awake. It is nimble, and it’s helped us do a lot of different stuff.

As the person who does the booking, does that type of planning provide its own sense of satisfaction?

The process can be super-rewarding. Part of what I’ve really enjoyed is getting to know another band really well. Nathan Tersteeg in Richmond had done our old art for the band, and he had also done art with this band called The Dreaded Laramie in Nashville. I saw this poster he had made — it was like a pug/octopus — for one of their shows, and that’s how I found them…  I listened to their sound and was like, “These guys are really great.” I hit them up kind of randomly, because I was like, “Well, they’re from Nashville, and we’re from Richmond, and I’m trying to get to Texas, so maybe they know a little bit more about that area.” 

I’ve been talking to [Dreaded Laramie singer and guitarist] MC [Cunningham] a whole lot, and she was super-helpful. She was like, “Okay, so we can’t do these days, but we can do Nashville, Memphis, and a Saturday somewhere. Do you need me to do anything right now?” I was like, “Hey, yeah, could you get cracking on the Nashville show?” and I swear like two days later, she was like, “We’re booked in Nashville. The whole bill’s figured out…” Meeting people on the internet who are kind and willing to do work like that has been so rewarding. I feel like we’re really good friends even though we’ve never met in person. But we’re about to. 

Where are you planning to record your upcoming album?

We’re going to do it at Chip Hale’s studio, actually… I’ve just been really impressed with how thorough he is in communication about what you’re looking for and how we can achieve it. We haven’t gotten into any of those sessions yet, but we’re going to try to do it as live as possible. It’s funny because I don’t really consider us to be much of a studio kind of band. I really love playing live, and to be completely honest, my comfort zone isn’t in the studio, so it’s sort of like, “Let’s try to make this as live as possible.” We’ve got between six and 10 songs that we might do. We’ll see what we get and how we’re feeling about it. Hopefully that can come out before the end of the year. 

For more information about Dead Billionaires’ current tour, visit deadbillionaires.com.

Top Photo: Dead Billionaires at The HofGarden. Photo courtesy Dead Billionaires.