Twenty years ago next month, Mastodon released one of this century’s great works of art, Leviathan—a metal masterpiece inspired by the great American novel Moby Dick. Just as Herman Melville opened his novel with the eternally prescient line, “Call me Ishmael,” so too did Mastodon open their album with the similarly oracular lyric from Blood and Thunder, “I think that someone is trying to kill me.” A parallel that rejected the notion that Leviathan could ever be heard in casual passing. Instead, the album draws you into the immediate presence of the white whale, into the deep, and the eternal chase of the unknown. It is elemental poetry for the sonic universe.
Mastodon and Lamb of God will be landing in Richmond on July 28th at the Virginia Credit Union Live for the Ashes to Leviathan Tour, celebrating the twenty-year anniversary of their pioneering albums, Leviathan and Ashes of the Wake—both released on the same day in 2004.
We caught up with Mastodon vocalist and bassist Troy Sanders to chat about the tour and what it means to be chasing the white whale in 2024.
Landon Shroder: Hey Troy. How’s it going? Great to catch up with you.
Troy Sanders: It’s going great. It’s a good Thursday in Atlanta. Everyone says ‘hot ‘lanta,’ but I don’t like saying that because it’s so overused. Anyway, it’s hot in Atlanta, and I’m good.
LS: I empathize, it’s a scorcher in Richmond too. Anyways, thanks for taking the time to chat with us. I know you’re super busy prepping for the Ashes to Leviathan tour, so let’s hop right into it.
TS: That sounds great.
LS: Twenty years since the release of Leviathan, and I would be hard-pressed to say this album isn’t a seminal work of art that cuts across all genres. Why do you think the album has had such resonance two decades later?
TS: I think you just hit one of the nails on the head with that. Online it says that was our second album, but we recorded a record called Call of the Mastodon in 2001, and then Remission was considered our first album, which I never understood. Anyways, Leviathan came out in 2004, and that record put us on the map. It took us from VFW halls, dive bars, and basement gigs to much bigger stages.
The record showcased all of our collective chemistry and styles when we formed the band four years prior to the record coming out. So it was a perfect alignment of fate with our songcraft and where we were at the time — only a couple of years into making the band work. We all shared that desire and fire to get out there and make a name for ourselves and not just sit back and wait for something good to happen. That’s when our drummer Brann had the idea of writing a concept album based on the story of Moby Dick. It’s not like we had much of a career prior to Leviathan coming out, so it could either be career suicide or something that set us apart from the rest of the pack.
I think taking that bold step, and the risk combined with the rage and eclectic heaviness, the urgency and chaos, paired with really incredible artwork — this was a bold statement in the world of heavy music in 2004. That’s why a lot of people still enjoy Mastodon; it resonates from the combination of artwork and unique storylines in the world of abrasive, chaotic, heavy metal.
LS: Building on that just for a second — since the release of Leviathan, there have been almost two new generations of Mastodon fans. What’s it like engaging with newer and younger audiences that are discovering your catalog for the first time?
TS: Love it, man. We set out as road dogs to give a hundred-percent effort into making our band, making something awesome. We had four dudes that wanted to make noise, make a statement for ourselves, and to put in the work. Nothing like this was ever planned or expected. So now that our journey has taken us all the way back around to celebrating twenty years of this record — I love the fact that lots of people still listen to it, and then seeing teenagers and young men and women wearing Leviathan merch. It’s almost like having a twenty-year-old child; I still love my child. But the fact that people around the globe are still influenced and appreciative of the record makes me personally very proud. So I am very happy to go out and do this tour; it doesn’t feel like we’re digging or looking for what will make a successful tour.
We also just finished practice here in Atlanta and ran through the whole record twenty years on, and I really love how those songs came about and how they still live in my mind, body, and psyche. I think I speak for my entire band when I share those feelings.
LS: That’s amazing. Ashes of the Wake and Leviathan were released simultaneously, which makes this tour with Lamb of God seem particularly special. Not just for the fans, but I would also assume for each band. So I guess the question is—10 years ago—did you guys make a pact and say if you made it to twenty, this was something that you were going to do? How did this all spin up?
TS: Close. This was maybe three years ago. We were sharing the stage with them [Lamb of God], doing some festivals — we cross paths with the Lamb of God guys a lot. And I remember throwing the idea around, like, ‘Hey, it’s still a few years off, but we should carve out some time in 2024 to celebrate those two records.’ A lot of people told me over the years they went into the record store that same day and picked up both records.
So we’ve been prefacing this idea with Lamb of God for a few years now, and thankfully they carved out some time to celebrate this and do a tour with us. The idea of doing one show or a week of shows blossomed into a full-bore six-week North American run.
LS: Given the fact that Lamb of God are hometown heroes in Richmond, I’m curious to know how that relationship has evolved over the years, since both bands occupy such a prominent space in metal and hard rock in America?
TS: The relationship between Mastodon and Lamb of God actually began pre-Mastodon, pre-Lamb of God, when two of our guys were in a band called Today Is the Day. We were recording in Clinton, Massachusetts, and they had to take a break because a band called Burn the Priest was coming to record an album, and Burn the Priest became Lamb of God, and Today Is the Day became Mastodon. Our friendship was created before Mastodon was born into the world.
But since then, we’ve played and done many tours with them, shared stages across the world. We also share a lot of mutual respect and appreciation for one another. The first couple of shows Mastodon ever played in Richmond in 2000-2001, there were always Lamb of God guys there —so our relationship has been solid since day one. Much love for those guys.
LS: Because Richmond’s a small city, somebody told me you write weekly fan letters to John Campbell (Lamb of God bassist)?
TS: [Laughing] For twenty years, I’ve been writing weekly fan mail to John, and he’s never replied to me, but I feel one day we’re going to be best friends [laughing].
LS: So much has been written on the usage of Moby Dick as the theme in Leviathan. I suspect someone has probably already written a graduate thesis on it. But how has your worldview changed since that concept was initially laid out, which is a way of asking, are you guys still chasing the elusive white whale?
TS: I think we see the prize, the end result is the elusive whale. It’s been in our sights now for a long time, but it’s also about maintaining that journey. With the touring schedule that we’ve maintained over the past 24 years, the chase and hunt have not only become more serious but more focused — that is the end goal. Meaning that we can’t just go out and play shitty on a tour, we can’t go out and phone in our next record; everything still has to ascend — I always like to say it’s the journey of ascending the mountain.
So when you put it in the concept, the idea of the elusive [white] whale, that whale has been in our sights, and we’re maintaining and staying afloat while enjoying this journey. We’re also very cautious and aware of how we approach this elusive whale, because we’re right on top of it and have been for a long time, and I think it brings us together as a band. And the longer we go, the more serious we need to take it — keeping one another in check, staying humble.
Who would have thought we’d go out and play amphitheaters with five 18-wheelers, three tour buses, video walls, and pyrotechnics? This is the dream that has become a reality and it is not to be taken lightly. That’s a great question, I like the visual of that—the whale’s been in our sight and we’re just maintaining a safe distance as we continue to follow it in awe.
LS: Let me ask you a follow-up to that then, since your music is so rich in symbolism, metaphor, and imagery. Are there any themes that you would like to concept around, but just haven’t found a way to do so yet? Whether or not you’re talking about Joseph Campbell’s The Hero with a Thousand Faces or Melville’s Moby Dick, these are not easy themes. Is there anything too complex or esoteric for Mastodon?
TS: Great question. Nothing is off the radar, no matter how deep, bizarre, or abstract the concept. If someone brings an idea, there’s nothing that we wouldn’t entertain as far as the next record — or a record down the line. We’re open to anything as long as the four of us are enthusiastic about the idea. After Leviathan, we did The Hero with a Thousand Faces, which was a big part of Blood Mountain in 2006, and we got real deep with the elements concept with Crack the Skye in 2009. After that, we kind of backed off the deepness and heaviness of those conceptual albums. But to answer your question, there’s nothing we won’t entertain, but only time will tell.
LS: Do you usually start with the music or the concept, or are those things integrated in terms of the process?
TS: We start with the music. We’re always working on ideas, songs, and putting riffs together while we’re on tour — collecting ideas and recording them on our laptops or using Pro Tools, so the music has always been first and foremost. Once we get closer to putting a record together and have an album’s worth of material, that’s when the lyrical concepts and thematic ideas come into play — giving it some energy to move forward. But because all four of us play instruments, it is natural for the music to come first.
LS: Since the Ashes of Leviathan Tour seems to be a full-circle moment. What are your most memorable moments from your time on the road? Are there any anecdotes you can share, career highlights over the past twenty years?
TS: There’s been a lot. The first one that comes to mind was more of a ‘pinch me and wake me up from this dream’ moment — when we did a full European arena tour with Metallica and Lamb of God. I cut my teeth growing up on the first three Metallica records; that was my bass lesson and what got me into heavy music in the first place. So sharing a stage with Lamb of God and Metallica every night for six weeks was the first real ‘holy shit, this is happening’ moment of our touring career.
So there have been a lot of dream-come-true moments, but we definitely need more time to discuss those. But when I think of the journey that Lamb of God and Mastodon have taken over twenty years, I will always look back and be like, ‘The two of us were handpicked by Metallica.’
LS: Can I ask you a philosophical question?
TS: Sure.
LS: What’s the future of music look like to you? There is a lot of debate about where everything’s moving.
TS: The only time I really think about that is when I go to live shows as a fan or when we’re touring and part of live shows. That energy and that connection amongst music lovers around the world, it’s not just in the U.S. We could be in the Middle East, and the energy that happens from stage to crowd and back to one another is an intangible moment of beauty and love. And whenever I experience that, I realize that the future of music is always going to be alive and well in a live environment — I’m never disappointed; no live streams can ever compete with that.
LS: Just because you brought up the Middle East, have you found any kind of new or unsuspecting pockets of fans over the course of your career?
TS: We played a festival in Dubai, and the amount of fans that loved our band was life-changing. They might not have ever heard our band, but when we were on stage, there was nothing but love and appreciation, excitement and energy — it was the best thing in the world. Twelve years ago, we were in conflict with the country next door (Iraq), and even though we were American, it didn’t matter. We met people from Jordan, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Dubai (UAE), Iraq, and Iran. I know it is cliché to say music is the universal language, but it never shined brighter than that day.
LS: Troy, I think that is a great place to call it. Thanks for chatting with us, we’ll see you at the gig in Richmond.
TS: Love it man. Thank you.
Cover image by Clay Patrick McBride.
*This Q&A was edited for length and clarity.
