In this laid-back chat, we caught up with Willie Williams, a seasoned mix of country, pop, Americana, blues and hard rock deeply rooted in Richmond’s bustling music scene as a solo musician and with Allman Brothers tribute band Skydog. We dive into the world of gigging, tackling misconceptions and dishing out some real talk about what it’s like to make a living through music. From riffing on the differences between gigs and ticketed shows to sharing the ups and downs faced by budding musicians, Williams brings a mix of personal stories and straight talk to the table. As he gears up to drop some original tunes, he spills the beans on his creative process and what’s next on his musical journey.
Jonathan Facka: It’s been my experience with people who don’t live the life of a musician, they tend to believe most musicians are poor, but a lot of musicians like you and I are in on the secret. You don’t need to be famous to live a comfortable life making music. I’m talking, of course, about gigging. For the reader, gigging is when you get hired as a contractor to play at a location such as a bar or vineyard, private parties, weddings, you name it.
A show, however, is when you play a ticketed venue for fans of your music. I want to redefine success in music for the average American who might not have a true grasp on the gig economy. How long have you been in the gig game?
Willie Williams: Well, full time about two years, but I’ve been dabbling at it. Gosh, going on 20.
JF: So you got started in music 20 years ago?
Willie: Yeah. I had my first professional appearance when I was 13 years old in Portsmouth, Virginia. So, yeah, whatever that equates to… about 34 years.
JF: Right on. So what are your thoughts on gigging versus playing ticketed shows? Like, what’s the difference?
WW: Well, I think gigging is a crucial step in the trajectory of any musician. It’s where you’ve got to be if you’re intending on making a living at it. Ticketed shows are wonderful, and they’re amazing when they happen. My bread and butter is gigs. I play three to five a week.
JF: Yeah, and I saw your schedule, so I know you’re not lying.
WW: It pays my grocery bills, it pays my mortgage, it pays my car payment. I mean, it’s not the nine-to-five corporate gig, a corporate career obviously, it’s an alternative to that. And it can be very cynical, but once you develop a comfortable network, which takes a lot of hard work, but once you develop that network, you’ve got a fairly predictable, fairly steady income stream that can provide a very nice lifestyle for the average working musician here in Richmond, or in any medium to large-sized market.
JF: That’s lost on a lot of people. A lot of people see this as a hobby. They go to a brewery, and they see someone gigging and then they go, “I could do that.” What do you say to those people?
WW: Go for it. I mean, a lot of people try, and a lot of people do it. I think that’s one of the biggest challenges of being a professional musician, at the local and regional level is that my biggest competition are hobbyists. They get out there and have a day job and are playing on the weekends, and they’re willing to play for, quite frankly, a lower wage. That’s probably my biggest competition. I spend a decent chunk of my time trying to differentiate myself from the hobbyists, and trying to prove I’m a professional full-time musician. I hone my craft. I spend many hours a week honing my craft, whether it be vocal chops, guitar chops, songwriting chops, performance chops, showmanship chops, whatever it is.
And it’s not just me, there are there are dozens of full-time gigging professional musicians here in Richmond. And I’m proud of what we do, and I’m not trying to denigrate the hobbyists at all, I’m glad they’re there. I’m glad they exist.
JF: But I was gonna ask you, not to cut you off. Why do you think that most hobbyists are afraid to go full time? Because they don’t think it would yield enough money? What could you say to bolster some confidence in these people, because clearly, you’re a successful musician, I see you crushing it every day. So it can be done and you’re very talented, talent is a factor. But if these hobbyists have the talent, they’re just afraid that they’re not going to be able to make enough money, they’re afraid to quit their job, you say, Go quit your job, or what do you say?
WW: A lot depends on the job. I mean, I quit my job because I wasn’t in a good headspace there, I was not a good fit for the corporate world. And it was creating some emotional strain and stress and anxiety and things like that. So I needed to find a way out. A big part of it was confidence. I’m not sure if it’s fear that’s holding most of you back but I know some hobbyists who have excellent careers. They love what they do. Doctors, attorneys, things like that. They’re not going to quit to go become a gigging musician, and I don’t think that they should. They may be perfectly content, I’m not sure fear is what’s holding them back so much as it is comfort, comfort with their current lifestyle.
And if somebody’s comfortable, where they’re at, don’t make a change. But if you’re discontent with the corporate world or the corporate scene, and you’re looking for a way out, and you believe in yourself, and you’re dedicated and you’re passionate. Go for it, do it.
JF: Do you think gigging and making actual money is a secret?
WW: Well, that’s a great question. I think that there are some musicians out there who don’t understand the amount of work that it takes to become successful at the local and regional level. It’s not something that just happens overnight. Instant gratification, it doesn’t exist. I mean, maybe on TikTok, once, it might happen once if you’re lucky. If something goes viral or whatever, but to build a following, to build a network of venues, to build a little bit of buzz or a fan base or whatever. Yeah, it takes work. I think the biggest factor is just don’t stop, keep gigging there’s no such thing as a bad gig. I mean, there may only be four people out there. So my early gigs, there were only a handful of people out there. But guess what. They might have liked what they heard.
And they told their friends, and next thing you know you’re bringing 30, 40, 50 people out to a gig, which makes venues happy. The happier venues are, the more often they’re going to have you back, the more excited they are to have you, the more they’re going to pay you, etc., etc. I think a lot of musicians underestimate the amount of work it takes to get to that level of sustainability where you can create a comfortable income for yourself.
JF: Well, you certainly are a successful gigging musician. I’ve seen it firsthand. And so you’re branching off into releasing original music. So I wanted to ask, you seem to be a fan of gas station chicken. I’ve always seen it in passing, but declined to indulge. What do you like about gas station chicken? And do you think I should try it?
WW: Oh, of course, you should try it. I mean, you know, living in the South. Indulging on a three-piece box from a reputable gas station is a rite of passage. There are certainly a number of places where it might be sketchier than others. But yeah, there’s some surprisingly good gas station chicken throughout the state that you’ll find, we just thought it was a fun idea for a song and that’s kind of how it evolved.
JF: I listened to it and I enjoy it. And anyone out there can listen to it. We’ll put a link right here. What’s the true inspiration behind writing this song in particular?
WW: I was on the road. Back when I was working my corporate job. And we were down in southwest Virginia, and some friends from New England were down traveling with me. And we were in Salem, actually, and I don’t remember the name of the gas station we stopped at, but we pulled in there. And they had some really spectacular gas station chicken on display, in the glass case there. And my friend from New England had never seen it, was not familiar with the idea that you could get amazing chicken at a gas station. And we were talking about it and he said, “God”. He knew I was a songwriter. And he said, “Man, you should write a song called gas station chicken“. And I kind of chuckled and laughed, and then I thought, that’s actually not a bad idea. So that’s how it came about.
JF: I’ve heard you play it live. And I’ve listened to it on Spotify. And anyone out there can go do that. So here we are. You’re this successful, gigging musician who’s taking the leap into releasing original music. And how’s that transition been for you? Is it a transition? Or is it more of a progression? I suppose it is, and what lies in store for the future of Willie Williams’ music?
WW: Yeah, well, that’s a great question. And it is a progression. That’s a great word for it. And I would say I’m at a bit of a crossroads right now. Trying to decide if I want to maintain just being a local and regional gigging musician playing 90% covers, or do I really want to pursue artistry and songwriting at the next level, be it on a bigger regional level, or even nationally. Certainly, I’ve been writing more lately, and had some really good collaborations of late, it’s producing some pretty interesting material that’s outside of the wheelhouse that I would normally write in. So I’m at an exciting point. I’m not exactly sure what the future is going to hold. It’s embracing each day, with the opportunities that come at me. And just kind of following my muse and see where it leads me.
JF: You have another song coming? I read that, didn’t I? So I want you to tell me about that.
WW: Yeah, I’ve got this song. It’s hopefully being mastered this week. Called, “It’s Alright By Me”. It was a song that I started about 20 years ago. It was found an old tape about six months ago and I pulled the tape out and listened to that chorus and my son, I’ve got a 19-year-old son, he heard it and he said, “that’s a pretty good song. You should finish that”. So I took it to heart and I did and I finished the song in like, a matter of a couple of hours. I don’t know why I put it away for 20 years, but recorded that largely at home and then I had some RVA friends help me out with it. Charles Arthur plays steel in Hammond, Oregon on it. Brian McDowell out of Nashville played fiddle. And then Stuart Myers from agents of good roots is mixing and mastering and so that should be coming out. Hopefully in the next week or so. We’ll get that wrapped up and get out there on streaming.
JF: Right on, man. Well, I’m excited to see what you do. And I’m fascinated by your drive. You’re one of the only actual successful gigging musicians that I know. I mean, I’ve had some success but maybe not on paying a mortgage level. So that’s respectable in its own right. And I want to see what you do next. So we’ll be here to see that and anyone out there I encourage you to check out Willie’s song Gas Station Chicken and then… what’s the release date for your new song?
WW: Should be the next couple of weeks. I don’t have a hard release date yet.
JF: Okay. Well, we’ll try to update that before this comes out. If not, then just be on the lookout. And thanks for talking to me. I really appreciate it.
Visit Willie Williams’ website for more information HERE
Main photo by Lee Roy Parnell
