When we first featured Ant The Symbol in RVA Magazine nearly five years ago, he was still known as
When we first featured Ant The Symbol in RVA Magazine nearly five years ago, he was still known as Just Plain Ant. As one of the founders of the Just Plain Sounds hip hop collective, he was a young producer on the rise with a posse of talented collaborators backing him up.
This article was featured in RVAMag #22: Fall 2015. You can read all of issue #22 here or pick it up at local shops around RVA right now.
A lot of things have happened to Anthony Gillison since those days; some good, some bad, all inspiring to his highly productive muse. These days, Just Plain Sounds is defunct and Ant The Symbol is going it alone, but the spring 2015 release of The King Of Nothing, his first full-length since the end of JPS, gave him a new lease on life. Since then, he’s stayed busy–remastering and reissuing older work, cranking out EPs and beat tapes, putting together beats for his next album, and delving into new projects featuring live instrumentation, multimedia production, and… maybe even film? One thing’s for sure–Ant The Symbol has a lot going on. We sat down with him a few weeks ago to get the details.
When you started producing, who were your inspirations?
Usually everybody has this long list of inspirations but I had exactly three that got me to start producing. They were J-Dilla, 9th Wonder, and RJD2. J-Dilla’s just like, how soulful his stuff was. 9th Wonder came from listening to Little Brother’s The Listening, which is an incredible album. Hearing how his production was also very soulful, but he ended up putting together this very funny story, with very good lyrics. Not to say J-Dilla wasn’t an amazing producer–he was! He’s one of the best. But something about The Listening just hit me a certain way, where I was like “This is what a producer should be doing!” RJD2, it was his versatility. Everybody else’s first album they heard by him was Deadringer–mine was Since We Last Spoke. He did all this amazing rock-influenced stuff [on that album]. It still had soul influence in there, but the versatility of it was amazing.
You became Ant The Symbol after JPS split up. What was the inspiration behind the name Ant The Symbol?
I was just listening to Prince one day, trying to figure out what my next move would be. I was [thinking], “Prince up and left Warner Bros because they weren’t doing him right. He was like, ‘I’m not even gonna be a name, I’m gonna be a symbol.’ But I can’t draw, so I can’t be a symbol.” If somebody asked me what my name was and I drew them a picture, they’d go, “So your name is stupid little scribble-line.” [laughs]
But you do have that ant logo you’ve been using.
Yeah, I was lucky. Mike Gregoire, the founder of BlocSonic, the label I release music through sometimes, was like, “I actually have a logo for you.” He sent it to me, and I was blown away by it. Every album that I’ve released so far, I don’t even put my name on it. My name’s not on any of the covers, it’s just the logo. So at the end of the day, it kind of did end up like [Prince]–that symbol is everywhere.
What happened with the end of JPS, anyway?
I felt like everything with JPS was becoming really dissonant, and everybody was starting to clash with each other–too many disagreements, people were starting to leave, and it was starting to cramp my creativity. So I did a whole bunch at one time. I released what was supposed to be my album The Talented Mr. Thunderknuckles. A lot of that did not [get finished], but I did have 8 tracks. I got really frustrated one day, and dropped it as Just Plain Ant Is Gone. I didn’t even announce it, I just put it up on the internet. I was almost positive that was gonna be my very last album, because things had just not panned out. And this wasn’t the first time things hadn’t panned out. At the end of the day, I just needed that change. I needed to find that person I became as Ant The Symbol. That independence has given everything a whole different feel.
I feel like you’re a really productive guy. If you go home and you don’t have anything to do, you’re thinking about making beats.
Even when I have things to do, I’m thinking about making beats. [laughs] Like at my desk at work, I’m listening to bullshit these customers tell me. When they’re yelling at me about medications they can’t get, I’m thinking about music that I’m gonna make. Music is my paradise. If something’s bothering me, if somebody’s nagging me, if there’s something in my life that’s really fucking with my head, I can remove myself from that situation via music. So I can’t really help but be productive.
Right, so getting back to you thinking Just Plain Ant Is Gone would be your last album… I can’t see you walking away from it.
I can’t see me walking away from it either. Everybody has those moments where they feel apprehensive about what they do. I’m no different. I see different people around me that are getting all this praise, and sometimes I feel like I’m in the same place I was 8 years ago. It can get frustrating. But at the end of the day, there’s no way in hell you’re going to be able to pull yourself away from something if you’re passionate about it. I’m definitely passionate about it! I remember when I first heard “Bonita Applebum” by A Tribe Called Quest when I was four years old, and feeling a certain way about it. I’m not trying to do this for a career. I’m not gonna do what’s popular at the time, because everybody else is into it. I’ll dabble in it, because I think trends are interesting. I was in advertising in college, so of course, seeing how to sell something to somebody is another part of me. But I’m not gonna remove myself from what I know. I’m gonna do it my way. I’m gonna go ahead and say it–most other rappers out here are doing it because it’ll get them money. It’ll get them attention. It’ll get them respect. I don’t care about money–I have a 9 to 5 for that. I don’t care about attention–I’m really introverted. And respect is something you shouldn’t have to try for. If you’re a respectable person, you’ll get respect. So having to try to get those three things is no concern of mine.
Tell me about the first three EPs you released as Ant The Symbol: I’m Not Them, Act Natural, and Go It Alone.
That was a really dark point in my life. That was right when JPS split up and I had just become Ant The Symbol. A whole bunch of crazy stuff was happening in my personal life at the time, which just made me shut everybody out. I call that trilogy the Isolation Trilogy, because that’s what I did–I isolated myself. I didn’t really come out of that isolation until the beginning of this year. But at that point I was able to perfectly express how that isolation and, yes, depression felt. I’m Not Them was me removing the facade that everything was all good, struggling with how dark what was underneath that facade was, and being liberated by removing that facade. Act Natural was very electronic and kind of techno, and that’s for a very good reason. I’ve never been a club person, I’ve never liked crowds, I’ve never liked a whole bunch of people dancing and running into me and stuff. But I tried it that summer, just to perhaps dig myself out of a funk. Maybe something different was necessary. But it ended up making me feel even more suffocated, even more tense. It ended up resulting in me going even deeper into isolation. And then Go It Alone was just like… I need space. Let me be, and I’ll be back a better person. I think that Go It Alone was the perfect segue into The King Of Nothing. Go It Alone was isolation to find understanding. The King Of Nothing was the manifestation of that understanding.
What was your motivation to do that album?
When I came out of that period of deep depression, I felt better–I felt like the king of something. But what was I the king of? I’m not the king of anything, I just feel renewed, and like nobody could bring me down from where I’ve gotten.
I feel like this is a dark interview, by the way. [laughs] Because my life is not, “We’re gonna get bottles of Hennessy and pour it over bitches and shit”–taking pictures on Instagram at a bar with two bottles of Patron. I don’t even drink Patron, man. I just go and sit in the house, watch a movie and drink a beer or something.
King Of Nothing is the first real album under the name Ant The Symbol. [It’s] me in this new transformed version of myself. I was able to be like, “This is the sound I’m going for, and I’m not willing to bargain it for anything. I know people that’ll be down with it, I’m going to get them to help me bring this sound together.” And it did come together exactly the way I wanted it to. I didn’t have to water anything down. The King Of Nothing is the start to optimism. It’s the start of turning the understanding into being grateful for the darkness. That’s where the next album, Clockwise, comes in.
Is that something you’re putting together now?
Yeah. I just finished the beats for it this week. The album should be out midwinter. Some people I’ve never worked with before, some of the usual suspects.
You’ve also done a bunch of reissues lately.
Yeah, I did a reissue of [albumtitle] and put it up on Spotify. I’m really glad that I’ve kept working with Ableton, because I finally got everything to sound the way I want it to. That’s why I’m doing these reissues. I’m sitting here listening to these things, thinking, “Wow, I really did not have mixing down the way that I want to.” And now that I do, and I hear the way they sound with my knowledge now, I want people to hear this exactly the way I wanted it to be heard, with the prowess that I’ve gained. I’ve got three or four more that I’ve done that I haven’t released yet, but I’m thinking about releasing. They’re all instrumental projects, but I definitely want to get these things re-released with the proper sonic appreciation they deserve.
On a mental and emotional level, do you feel like the coming out of the darkness that King Of Nothing represented might be a renewal of your career that has inspired you to go back to this old stuff and try and rework it?
Absolutely. I feel like at one time I was releasing too much. I’m trying to be more careful with that nowadays, because I want people to be able to grasp and absorb everything. Every little release that I do has a purpose, and I want anybody that’s a fan of my music to see that purpose, to feel that emotion I’m putting out there. I feel like I have a lot more clear thoughts that I want to put out there, and people would definitely be able to relate, especially if they listen to the albums in sequence. I know I’m not the only one that’s going through the things that I’ve gone through.
So what is coming up next?
I have Clockwise coming out in the winter from Blocsonic. It’s the calm after the storm. It’s really laid back. You wouldn’t ride down the street with the windows down letting the bass pump. It’s relaxing to listen to. It’s definitely a winter album.
Beyond that, there’ve been hints that you’re looking at branching out into live instrumentation. What’s going on with that?
I’ve been working on different demos, just composing them myself. You never know how creative you are until you set the mind to do something completely out of your comfort zone. I have 15 demos right now, [and] all 15 of them sound different. It’s amazing! I just need the time to work on it. Reggie Pace and I talked about making something happen, [and] soon he and I are gonna talk about making this thing come together. Get a bunch of singers, get a bunch of different instruments–there are so many people around here who play different instruments, [and] I definitely want my favorite instrumentalists in the city on it. This is the album that I want to define me. I have no idea when this one’s gonna come out, but it’s something I want to do diligently. I want people to go, “Wow, he’s way more than we thought he was before” when they listen to it.
[I’m also] starting… not necessarily a label, but a production/distribution/multimedia company called Five Leaf Media. The premiere release off of that label will be Graphic Antics, a collaboration between Graphic Melee and myself. He’ll be rhyming on the whole thing, I’ll produce the whole thing. It’s insane. It’s not relaxed, it’s not contemplative–I didn’t make the beats wanting to be some kind of conscious deep-minded thing, I just wanted to make something completely out there for him to just spazz on lyrically. It’s really fast paced, it’s really loud, and it’s amazing. I’m also working with several different artists on the beginning stages of albums I’ll produce for them. So that’s gonna be a main thing until I get this multi-genre project going.
Also, with this being a multimedia thing, I want to get a camera, start doing short films. Film is something I’ve always been really interested in. I want to start that by the time I turn 30. That’ll give me time to save up some money, get it going. There’s not a single album I’ve made that I haven’t come up with an image in my head for the entire thing. I wanted to do a short film for I’m Not Them. It never came to fruition, because you have all these ideas that you’re just not ready for. That’s the struggle of being a young artist. I was so hungry. I’ve heard people say that hunger can be a gift and a curse; you end up starting all these ideas and not going through with them. Now I’m just trying to go back and do those things.
